ogundipeore · 70 points · 44 comments · 7 時間前 · Open original
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JEjekude12 分前
I think the question and article is fascinating. I do think that one should not only look at the genetic representation, and the algorithm a cell runs, but also the formalized environment that runs the simulation.
I’ve been thinking about this for a few years and I truly believe these cells need to be able to “move” in either a 3d lattice similar to a cellular automata or become nodes in some cyclic graph (or maybe both).
For the genetic representation, I had an insight that DNA/RNA looks strangely similar to SKI calculus (combinators) and have been using a Church encoding to translate the SKI program to an “action” per turn (move, connect, spike, divide, etc.).
Either way the author is spot on when it comes to this sort of thing having the properties 1) “always on” (no separate training mode), 2) local interactions, 3) everything stems from a genome, 4) each cell is its own little mini-program with the same genetics as everyone else.
All I can say is that evolutionary program is hard and takes either massive compute or large timescales to run the simulations. Fascinating stuff though
PPppsreejith4 時間前
> The program must fit in a genome-sized instruction set of about 1 gigabyte
True but this can be a lot larger, maybe even a 1 exabyte instruction size since it depends on he programming language used to express the program. And even accounting for the invariance of runtimes at scale*, the constant factor might be gigantic since we have to build up a lot of cellular machinery first. Reminds me of the Carl Sagan quote: To make a sandwich,you must first construct the universe!
* For example, to translate a program from language A to language B, you can dedicate a constant size to write a language A to B translator. Thus at large program sizes , the kolmogorov complexity (i.e instruction set size) is fairly similar between programs since the size of the program dominates the size of the translator program which is constant. But the constant factor for cellular machinery might be gigantic**
** Or not if we only need a rough simulation
OEoezi19 分前
One aspect missing from TFA is that in biological brains a lot of the training is performed during query time. If we assume 1 GB of DNA is enough to encode the brain's overall structure we still do need training data (e.g. visual/auditorial/tactile) to build out the strength of the synaptic connections.
HOhoppp2 時間前
You'll need a simulated environment because brain development depends a lot on the environment, it's not purely genetic.
CHChicagoDave2 時間前
The human genome is essentially a billion-year-old quantum engineering document that we can read but can’t “yet” write.
Asimov’s positronic brain was the conceptual framework with the wrong formula.
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5 preview comments · loading full threadLog in to h4cker, then connect Hacker News to publish comments.
I think the question and article is fascinating. I do think that one should not only look at the genetic representation, and the algorithm a cell runs, but also the formalized environment that runs the simulation. I’ve been thinking about this for a few years and I truly believe these cells need to be able to “move” in either a 3d lattice similar to a cellular automata or become nodes in some cyclic graph (or maybe both). For the genetic representation, I had an insight that DNA/RNA looks strangely similar to SKI calculus (combinators) and have been using a Church encoding to translate the SKI program to an “action” per turn (move, connect, spike, divide, etc.). Either way the author is spot on when it comes to this sort of thing having the properties 1) “always on” (no separate training mode), 2) local interactions, 3) everything stems from a genome, 4) each cell is its own little mini-program with the same genetics as everyone else. All I can say is that evolutionary program is hard and takes either massive compute or large timescales to run the simulations. Fascinating stuff though
> The program must fit in a genome-sized instruction set of about 1 gigabyte True but this can be a lot larger, maybe even a 1 exabyte instruction size since it depends on he programming language used to express the program. And even accounting for the invariance of runtimes at scale*, the constant factor might be gigantic since we have to build up a lot of cellular machinery first. Reminds me of the Carl Sagan quote: To make a sandwich,you must first construct the universe! * For example, to translate a program from language A to language B, you can dedicate a constant size to write a language A to B translator. Thus at large program sizes , the kolmogorov complexity (i.e instruction set size) is fairly similar between programs since the size of the program dominates the size of the translator program which is constant. But the constant factor for cellular machinery might be gigantic** ** Or not if we only need a rough simulation
One aspect missing from TFA is that in biological brains a lot of the training is performed during query time. If we assume 1 GB of DNA is enough to encode the brain's overall structure we still do need training data (e.g. visual/auditorial/tactile) to build out the strength of the synaptic connections.
You'll need a simulated environment because brain development depends a lot on the environment, it's not purely genetic.
The human genome is essentially a billion-year-old quantum engineering document that we can read but can’t “yet” write. Asimov’s positronic brain was the conceptual framework with the wrong formula.