An issue is that they advocate for 3000K color temp which, while it's a significant improvement compared to many LEDs, is still very much too blue and not amber for nighttime. 2200K should be the target: https://www.atpiluminacion.com/energy-savings-dark-sky-prote...
CECentigonal8 小时前
There are some nice curb-cut effects of dark-sky lighting:
- The circadian rhythms of birds and nocturnal creatures are less severely affected
- Amber lights produce less insomnia
- The dumb streetlight across the street doesn't blind me from my bedroom window
LIlinkregister6 小时前
I'm convinced, but then all the links to actually acquiring the bulbs are broken or for wholesalers.
The city of Flagstaff page says the following:
Though it is still generally true that any LED product described as “Amber” will have lower impacts, as of early 2024 we cannot recommend any particular product as the quality control of the consumer-grade product lines is not providing products with consistent spectra.
It looks like this is still a nascent product line for residential lighting.
KAkazinator11 小时前
I've not seen a streetlight anywhere that wasn't collimated downward. Traditional neons are amber.
So we had it right well over half century ago as far as street lighting went.
SWswiftcoder52 分钟前
Our new ones are extremely bright arrays of white LEDs, pointed down at a 45 degree angle. They may technically be collimated downwards, but it's bright as day underneath, and there is considerable reflected light going upwards.
ZAzamadatix8 小时前
I've seen pretty much every variant of https://i.imgur.com/l9msIIM.jpeg somewhere around most places I've visited in North America/Europe.
BObob10299 小时前
There are quite a few homes in my area that still use gas lamps at night. The HOA is pretty good about sending letters to people who install 100w 5500k led cannons in their exterior fixtures.
HOhoofader8 小时前
I was staying on the main page waiting for something to happen, and then I realize I should scroll down!
I love the concept, but not sure how we can convince everyone to follow.
YEyellow_postit7 小时前
Many of the links have soft 404s as well. Seems like a dead site.
DHdheera7 小时前
I wish they made lights monochromatic in one R, one G, one B wavelength, that way they'd be easier to filter out in astrophotography.
Sodium lights were acutally kind of nice because they're mildly filterable with dinodymium glass.
ESesikich6 小时前
I think the heat differentials and particulates would still make city astrophotography pretty sub par.
JGJgoauh4 天前
i like the concept but i don't like the stock images
AHahmedehab_013 天前
My only gripe with amber lights is that they make me sleepy easily.
ESestearum10 小时前
Feature not a bug
Simply existing in a city should not compel you or other creatures to stay awake
If a person wants to stay awake at night then they can take that upon themselves
ZAzamadatix8 小时前
There is no "person A's sky only receives light from lamp A and person B's sky only receives light from lamp B" repeated 500,000 times. Both will make their own "simply existing in a city should not..." and "they can take that upon themselves" arguments about it and the problem that it's about what should be done with public space rather than the inside of their homes will still remain.
The article would be a lot shorter if it were as easy as individuals taking on their own citywide lighting choice and perspective. Signed as someone who now lives in a much, much smaller "city" than before :).
ESestearum6 小时前
Your argument is that someone stating "night time should be night time" has the same standing as someone stating "night time should be day time," just because neither person owns night time?
No, they don't actually.
ZAzamadatix4 小时前
People feel their perspective about outdoor light is the obviously principled one which is uncontestably based on obvious realities everyone should agree of until they start talking at the bar about which hour offset the local clock should be in winter.
The posted page goes through great effort to frame the problem from every perspective it possibly can precisely because it has spent enough time on the topic to understand how people won't agree it does/doesn't make obvious sense for a city to be dark because the sun went down. It's not because the author forgot to think of using a 3 line comment declaring it obvious instead, they know many people have many different angles they consider the important reasons it should be light/dark.
UNunknown8 小时前
[deleted]
UNunknown8 小时前
[deleted]
DOdotancohen10 小时前
Why can the user only accept, but not reject the cookies? I personally do not care, I block them in the browser.
Why is the "e" in "responsible" on a new line?
Dark-Sky
Lighting is
Responsibl
e Lighting.
DYdylan60410 小时前
why are you asking dang these questions?
DAdang9 小时前
(probably just a mistake. I moved the parent to the toplevel now.)
DOdotancohen9 小时前
Oops, thanks.
AAaaron6954 天前
[deleted]
SEsecretsatan4 天前
How much crap to go through before finding out what it is? This is like one of those recipe sites
DEDerekL3 天前
From the article:
> See 6 important reasons for using it, or skip to What is Dark-Sky Lighting?
DAdang11 小时前
Thanks! We've changed the URL above to jump to that section (submitted URL was https://www.savingourstars.org/darkskylighting ).
ARArekDymalski3 天前
Also from the article "2 minute read". And I thought that those news about atrophy of attention span are exaggerated.
JAjannyfer3 天前
To be fair, I saw that, I saw the “skip” link, and thought “that’s ok, I’ll just scroll down” on my phone.
It took SO many scrolls to get to the point. So the frustration is justified.
FUfunctionmouse10 小时前
> Too much light ... makes us less safe by creating harsh shadows and giving criminals a place to hide.
LMAO
DUduskdozer7 分钟前
This is an issue driving the mistaken belief that we need more and more light, especially bright blue LEDs. The LEDs have a hard cutoff between light and dark zones, and both the blue tint and the excessive brightness of the lights decrease your night vision and make your eyes become more unable to see anything outside of these small lit zones.
ZAZak6 小时前
It does link a couple studies to back up that claim. Critiques of those studies or evidence for the opposite would contribute to the conversation; this does not.
ESesikich6 小时前
Used to use this to great effect for capture the flag when I was a kid. We used to do it across the whole neighborhood. We realized that standing in shadows cast near street lights were excellent places to just stand and watch the other team. The bright light makes your eyes adjust and the shadows from nearby tree trunks become black voids.
TEtetris1110 小时前
The safety argument for street lighting makes me sad. I'd prefer if people just used their phone torches at night.
I used to cycle home in pitch black, watching the stars. Never had any incidents, others would notice me or I them before anything happened
DAdash27 小时前
I’ve been in cities with inadequate street lighting, and driving in them at night is terrifying. Car lights are not an adequate substitute on a busy road. I agree that in small towns and the country, street lighting is unnecessary.
KAkakacik1 小时前
I love my evening walks in the vineyards around our place, wine growers have these 4m wide tarmac access roads that criss-cross hills with vineyards for easier access, but nobody is there during late evening/night (sans infrequent dog walkers).
I never have to use any light, light form stars, moon and glow from nearby villages is enough to see the road, it doesn't contain any potholes or other tricks. Watching big 100km lake, villages and towns on its shores, with alps in the distance.
All that being said, its a terrible idea to expect whole villages or cities should work like that. Paired with cyclists is much worse, is it really that hard to imagine why? Even for cars, there are many things my head lamps reveal a bit too late compared to seeing people or obstacles well ahead, ie unlit clueless cyclists like you would be one strong category.
RIRIMR10 小时前
There are lots of safety arguments for street lighting.
For one, as a city dweller, I would be absolutely terrified walking around at night, having to rely on a flashlight to see anything. Not just a "scared of the dark" thing, but good outdoor lighting discourages things like robberies and assaults. And sure, cars could just use their headlights, but still, visibility in populated areas would be very bad, and safety for pedestrians at night would be awful.
ZAZak6 小时前
The site links a couple studies coming to a different conclusion about crime. Feeling safer doesn't necessarily mean you are safer.
As for pedestrian safety, button-activated lights over crosswalks are one potential alternative to always-on outdoor lighting. It might lead to a considerable safety improvement once people got used to the light being an indication that pedestrians are likely present.
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An issue is that they advocate for 3000K color temp which, while it's a significant improvement compared to many LEDs, is still very much too blue and not amber for nighttime. 2200K should be the target: https://www.atpiluminacion.com/energy-savings-dark-sky-prote...
There are some nice curb-cut effects of dark-sky lighting: - The circadian rhythms of birds and nocturnal creatures are less severely affected - Amber lights produce less insomnia - The dumb streetlight across the street doesn't blind me from my bedroom window
I'm convinced, but then all the links to actually acquiring the bulbs are broken or for wholesalers. The city of Flagstaff page says the following: Though it is still generally true that any LED product described as “Amber” will have lower impacts, as of early 2024 we cannot recommend any particular product as the quality control of the consumer-grade product lines is not providing products with consistent spectra. It looks like this is still a nascent product line for residential lighting.
I've not seen a streetlight anywhere that wasn't collimated downward. Traditional neons are amber. So we had it right well over half century ago as far as street lighting went.
Our new ones are extremely bright arrays of white LEDs, pointed down at a 45 degree angle. They may technically be collimated downwards, but it's bright as day underneath, and there is considerable reflected light going upwards.
I've seen pretty much every variant of https://i.imgur.com/l9msIIM.jpeg somewhere around most places I've visited in North America/Europe.
There are quite a few homes in my area that still use gas lamps at night. The HOA is pretty good about sending letters to people who install 100w 5500k led cannons in their exterior fixtures.
I was staying on the main page waiting for something to happen, and then I realize I should scroll down! I love the concept, but not sure how we can convince everyone to follow.
Many of the links have soft 404s as well. Seems like a dead site.
I wish they made lights monochromatic in one R, one G, one B wavelength, that way they'd be easier to filter out in astrophotography. Sodium lights were acutally kind of nice because they're mildly filterable with dinodymium glass.
I think the heat differentials and particulates would still make city astrophotography pretty sub par.
i like the concept but i don't like the stock images
My only gripe with amber lights is that they make me sleepy easily.
Feature not a bug Simply existing in a city should not compel you or other creatures to stay awake If a person wants to stay awake at night then they can take that upon themselves
There is no "person A's sky only receives light from lamp A and person B's sky only receives light from lamp B" repeated 500,000 times. Both will make their own "simply existing in a city should not..." and "they can take that upon themselves" arguments about it and the problem that it's about what should be done with public space rather than the inside of their homes will still remain. The article would be a lot shorter if it were as easy as individuals taking on their own citywide lighting choice and perspective. Signed as someone who now lives in a much, much smaller "city" than before :).
Your argument is that someone stating "night time should be night time" has the same standing as someone stating "night time should be day time," just because neither person owns night time? No, they don't actually.
People feel their perspective about outdoor light is the obviously principled one which is uncontestably based on obvious realities everyone should agree of until they start talking at the bar about which hour offset the local clock should be in winter. The posted page goes through great effort to frame the problem from every perspective it possibly can precisely because it has spent enough time on the topic to understand how people won't agree it does/doesn't make obvious sense for a city to be dark because the sun went down. It's not because the author forgot to think of using a 3 line comment declaring it obvious instead, they know many people have many different angles they consider the important reasons it should be light/dark.
[deleted]
[deleted]
Why can the user only accept, but not reject the cookies? I personally do not care, I block them in the browser. Why is the "e" in "responsible" on a new line? Dark-Sky Lighting is Responsibl e Lighting.
why are you asking dang these questions?
(probably just a mistake. I moved the parent to the toplevel now.)
Oops, thanks.
[deleted]
How much crap to go through before finding out what it is? This is like one of those recipe sites
From the article: > See 6 important reasons for using it, or skip to What is Dark-Sky Lighting?
Thanks! We've changed the URL above to jump to that section (submitted URL was https://www.savingourstars.org/darkskylighting ).
Also from the article "2 minute read". And I thought that those news about atrophy of attention span are exaggerated.
To be fair, I saw that, I saw the “skip” link, and thought “that’s ok, I’ll just scroll down” on my phone. It took SO many scrolls to get to the point. So the frustration is justified.
> Too much light ... makes us less safe by creating harsh shadows and giving criminals a place to hide. LMAO
This is an issue driving the mistaken belief that we need more and more light, especially bright blue LEDs. The LEDs have a hard cutoff between light and dark zones, and both the blue tint and the excessive brightness of the lights decrease your night vision and make your eyes become more unable to see anything outside of these small lit zones.
It does link a couple studies to back up that claim. Critiques of those studies or evidence for the opposite would contribute to the conversation; this does not.
Used to use this to great effect for capture the flag when I was a kid. We used to do it across the whole neighborhood. We realized that standing in shadows cast near street lights were excellent places to just stand and watch the other team. The bright light makes your eyes adjust and the shadows from nearby tree trunks become black voids.
The safety argument for street lighting makes me sad. I'd prefer if people just used their phone torches at night. I used to cycle home in pitch black, watching the stars. Never had any incidents, others would notice me or I them before anything happened
I’ve been in cities with inadequate street lighting, and driving in them at night is terrifying. Car lights are not an adequate substitute on a busy road. I agree that in small towns and the country, street lighting is unnecessary.
I love my evening walks in the vineyards around our place, wine growers have these 4m wide tarmac access roads that criss-cross hills with vineyards for easier access, but nobody is there during late evening/night (sans infrequent dog walkers). I never have to use any light, light form stars, moon and glow from nearby villages is enough to see the road, it doesn't contain any potholes or other tricks. Watching big 100km lake, villages and towns on its shores, with alps in the distance. All that being said, its a terrible idea to expect whole villages or cities should work like that. Paired with cyclists is much worse, is it really that hard to imagine why? Even for cars, there are many things my head lamps reveal a bit too late compared to seeing people or obstacles well ahead, ie unlit clueless cyclists like you would be one strong category.
There are lots of safety arguments for street lighting. For one, as a city dweller, I would be absolutely terrified walking around at night, having to rely on a flashlight to see anything. Not just a "scared of the dark" thing, but good outdoor lighting discourages things like robberies and assaults. And sure, cars could just use their headlights, but still, visibility in populated areas would be very bad, and safety for pedestrians at night would be awful.
The site links a couple studies coming to a different conclusion about crime. Feeling safer doesn't necessarily mean you are safer. As for pedestrian safety, button-activated lights over crosswalks are one potential alternative to always-on outdoor lighting. It might lead to a considerable safety improvement once people got used to the light being an indication that pedestrians are likely present.